Mearls ([info]mearls) wrote,
@ 2005-05-29 14:57:00
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Core Stories in D&D
I had hoped to spend this afternoon studying for an upcoming job interview, but alas, this topic drew far more reponses than I anticipated. It also helps that this topic has been buzzing in my mind for quite some time. I'm going to break down what I see as a fundamental problem with the Eberron campaign setting, particularly in contrast with Forgotten Realms. I'm also going to talk about metaplot and core story.

This could be quite long, so this post is hidden behind an LJ cut. It's also helpful to read the responses to this entry, particularly Ryan's two posts. He nails the D&D core story dead on in his first one, and follows up with an analysis of Eberron that I agree with.


What is a Core Story?

A core story is the stereotypical game experience contained within an RPG. If you read my previous post and its comments, you saw Ryan's illustration of D&D's core story. A core story is important for a number of reasons:

* It provides a common, connecting element across your population of users. If I play D&D in Boston, I can move across the country to Seattle, hop into a game, and understand most of what's going on. Either the game follows the basic core story, or if it doesn't I can easily understand it in contrast to the core story. There's a good chance that, unless a new group has a really strange campaign they'll run a game I identify and enjoy. Note the power of a core story - I'm willing to bet that the phrase "a really strange D&D campaign" conjures up a much more vivid image for most of my readers than "a really strange toaster." You know what to expect from the typical D&D game.

* It creates a context for a designer's work. One of the key hurdles in RPG design lies in trying to figure out what your audience does with the final product. TSR died because it lost touch with its consumers. If I know the basic progression of a D&D session, I have a much easier time finding spaces in the system where I can add new options (feats), refine systems to improve their handling time (THACO vs. base attack bonus), and introduce new measures and sub-systems that improve the quality of play (CRs, gp value of treasure by level).

* It creates a road map for DMs. I think that the DMs' role in keeping D&D healthy is oft overlooked. If DMs don't enjoy running the game, there's no one to supply a play experience. The easier it is for DMs to create an adventure, the healthier an RPG. A core story gives a DM a basic blueprint for his own adventures.

* It provides focus in rules and story design. I think that while RPG mechanics have improved over the years, story design hasn't budged an inch (with some notable exceptions). I'll get into this topic in more depth with Eberron, but I will say that many of the processes applied to RPG mechanics have parallels in story design.

Without a core story, a game flounders. If you look at the history of RPGs, the staggering majority of successful games embrace a core story, either by design or by accident. There are two exceptions I can think of. GURPS lacks a core story, but it's designed to allow the end user to replicate the core stories taken from other games. Shadowrun had a murky core story in its 1st edition, so its users simply hijacked D&D's core story, modified it a bit to fit the SR background, and ran with it. (Pun intended.)

Core Stories and D&D

Ryan defined the D&D core story as:

"A party of adventurers assemble to seek fame and fortune. They leave civilization for a location of extreme danger. They fight monsters and overcome obstacles and acquire new abilities and items of power. Afterwards they return to civilization and sell the phat loot. Next week, they do it all over again."

This is dead on. There are a number of common variations, mostly dealing with how a DM unites each session into an arc of stories, but that's D&D in a nutshell. Ryan's assessment of both Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms is also spot on.

If you look at the Realms in terms of the core story, the true genius behind it becomes apparent. In the misty days of the late 70s/early 80s, Ed Greenwood developed his game world in response to the activity in his D&D games. Adventuring companies, the ruins of Undermountain, the sprawling streets of Waterdeep, the multitude of possibilities for adventure - I believe all of these have the finger prints of D&D's core story inflicting itself on Ed's creation. In many ways, I see FR as the iconic example of the typical DM's home campaign - a fantasy setting influenced by post-Tolkien fantasy, pounded into its final form by the demands of the D&D game (How do adventurers fit into society? Adventuring companies! Where do all these treasures come from? Undermountain! Myth Drannor! The Haunted Halls of Evening Star!) Add in Ed's rare combination of a vivid imagination, considerable writing talents, and boundless productivity, and you have the Forgotten Realms.

As Ryan mentioned, Greyhawk is the setting of choice for DIY DMs who don't want to draw a world map, or who need the basic tableau set up for their own works. Greyhawk has many similar features to the Realms - fallen civilizations with lots of ruins and forgotten treasures, a teeming underdark, points of civilization contrasted with wild, deadly wilderness, and so forth. Greyhawk merely lacks the Realms' detail. It waits for the DM to step in and stamp the core story upon it.

Which brings us to Eberron. What is Eberron's core story? From my current vantage point, I can't really say it has one. Even the Eberron text itself is never really clear about what the story is, and I think this problem extended to the marketing campaign waged to launch the setting. Aside from the scattered story elements that make Eberron unique, there is no single thread or vision that ties it together. The core story of Eberron seems to be D&D's core story, but that's almost by default. The ECS talks about Eberron in terms of other media - film and print - but it never really addresses the core story issue. Aside from Eberron's setting elements - warforged, undead worshipping elves, air ships - there is no fundamental shift between Eberron and the existing properties. The presence of action points almost makes Eberron feel like it's a different game trying to function within D&D. The message in Eberron seems to be "This isn't your father's D&D!" but in practice, it's the same thing.

I think it's possible to use settings to introduce new core stories that exist besides D&D's core story. Dark Sun is a good example of this (though more on it later, when I talk about metaplot). I think, were I in charge of Eberron, I would hijack the Star Wars RPG's core story, filter it through Shadowrun, and come up with:

"The heroes are independent operatives who accept comissions from powerful merchant families to infiltrate exotic locations, accomplish a goal to defeat a rival or evil organization, and flee to safety as the location either blows up, collapses, or falls into a volcanic rift."

Complete with a tip of the hat to [info]rob_donoghue. I think this core story plays to Eberron's strengths - it has a number of competeing, though not necessarily "evil" factions, and the modes of travel within it make hopping around to distant locales relatively easy. It would be, in essence, Star Wars space-fantasy without the space.

Metaplot and Core Story

We cannot talk about metaplot and D&D without talking about Dark Sun, perhaps the best example of a metaplot gone wrong. Dark Sun started out with a brilliant core story that wrapped all the exotic elements of the setting into one, easy to understand idea:

"The heroes are the oppressed people of Athas who rise against the forces that would enslave them, battle against the minions of the wizard kings, and push back the yolk of tyranny."

The problem with Dark Sun is that the designers decided to solve the core story for the players. In first series of Dark Sun novels, the protagonists followed the core story to its logical conclusion. They defeated and overthrow a wizard king and established a free state on Athas. The heroes weren't left with much to do - the novels had trampled the core story.

A good metaplot, on the other hand, strengthens and enforces the core story. Look at the Forgotten Realms - RA Salvatore's Drizzt character has become an icon of gaming, and in doing so he created an entire new vista for the core story in Menzobaranzzen and other locales of the underdark. What was once a big dungeon became an exotic region where you could set and run entire campaigns. Despite the core changes wrought to Faerun, the setting as a whole continued to offer the core story in an intact form. Drizzt showed gamers that they could play a cool drow ranger armed with two scimitars who.... left civilization in search of adventure, battled monsters, collected loot, and sold it in town for a tidy profit.

Dragonlance suffers similar problems to DS - the novels typically present a core story, then resolve it before gamers can latch on to it. The best game fiction (in terms of core story) doesn't star the characters - it stars the setting.

Implications for Designers

When building story elements for an RPG, you need to keep your game's core story in mind. The best example I can think of is the development of the Red Wizards of Thay for the 3e version of the Forgotten Realms. In third edition, the red wizards gain their power by crafting magic items and selling them across the world. Not only does this fit in brilliantly with the core story (the PCs need a place to buy new items and sell the ones they recover), but it illustrates the Realms' ability to take elements of D&D and absorb them in a manner that the game's mechanics neatly fold into the game's story elements. Of course the red wizards are powerful - they make a fortune selling magic items. Of course the red wizards are everywhere on Faerun - they have a massive trade network. And of course the governments of Faerun tolerate the wizards, despite their tendency towards evil - who else can produce magic items on the same scale?

By filtering story elements through the core story, we can see which parts of a setting are likely to see use (and thus need detail, testing, etc), which ones are superfluous (and thus occupy time and resources best spent elsewhere), and so forth. Here's a mental exercise - try going through the Eberron core book armed with the core story I propose, and look at which setting elements support that story and which ones don't. Look at existing elements and think of subtle or major changes that could make them better suited to the core story. IMO, this process is the key to building a viable, popular, and sustainable game setting.




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[info]littlestkobold
2005-05-29 10:25 pm UTC (link)
Was this the core story you used in your Eberron game?

And nice article - I'd never really thought about settings in that way, but I'm gonna see if I can find the core story in my own settings now!

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[info]mearls
2005-05-29 11:29 pm UTC (link)
Now that I think about it, it was the core story for my Eberron campaign. I had the PCs:

* Infiltrate a necromancer's floating tower, steal his notes, and send the tower crashing to the ground.

* Sneak into a city of undead giants and unleash the volcano capable of destroying it.

* Sneak into the main villain's island fortress and seize control of it.

I hadn't thought of it before, but I basically followed my core story idea.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]bcwalker
2005-05-29 10:42 pm UTC (link)
I think this needs to be done with other popular games, like Exalted, just to see the noetic process in action.

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[info]oakthorne
2005-05-29 10:52 pm UTC (link)
I would love to see this done with Exalted, frankly. I have some basic ideas about what the final product of such a process might look like, but would enjoy seeing it done.

Joseph

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mearls, 2005-05-29 11:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bcwalker, 2005-05-29 11:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bishi_wannabe, 2005-05-30 12:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]madmanofprague, 2005-05-30 02:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]djtiresias, 2005-05-30 09:11 am UTC
Thanks for this! Now, let's keep going! - [info]evildmguy, 2005-05-31 05:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rivet_geek, 2005-05-30 04:35 am UTC
What about...
[info]danharms
2005-05-29 11:13 pm UTC (link)
...the battle of good versus evil?

It's not necessary for a good game, of course. I'm just thinking that, based on my D&D experience, it forms an important part of the story line.

Should it be included in the core story? Is it just a justification for it? Or is something else going on? If it's not part of the core story, are game systems such as alignment necessary or useful?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: What about...
[info]mearls
2005-05-29 11:25 pm UTC (link)
That's an excellent point - I hadn't even considered it.

I think alignment is important. I'd bet serious money that if D&D was about being a complete amoral bastard, it wouldn't sell nearly as well. I really think the element of being the hero boosts D&D's appeal.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: What about... - [info]bcwalker, 2005-05-29 11:40 pm UTC
Re: What about... - [info]particle_man6, 2005-05-30 01:25 am UTC
Re: What about... - [info]bcwalker, 2005-05-30 02:05 am UTC
Re: What about... - [info]snarg, 2005-05-30 06:50 am UTC
Re: What about... - (Anonymous), 2005-05-30 11:02 am UTC
Re: What about... - [info]danharms, 2005-05-30 03:14 am UTC
Re: What about... - [info]cpxbrex, 2005-05-30 03:21 am UTC
Re: What about... - (Anonymous), 2005-05-29 11:45 pm UTC

[info]the_monkey_king
2005-05-29 11:17 pm UTC (link)
I like the premise of the D&D core story, and I can see it in action every time I run a game.

At first I wasn't sure that the various settings offered much variation on the D&D core story, but then I thought them through:

Ravenloft: "A party of adventurers is sucked into a terrifying realm of extreme danger. They fight monsters and overcome obstacles and may be tainted by the dark powers they meet. Afterwards they return to civilization and regret the lack of the phat loot. Next week, they do it all over again."

Planescape: "A party of extra-planar adventurers assemble to travel the multiverse seeking fame and fortune and promoting their Faction. They leave Sigil/their home plane for a new plane of extreme danger. They fight celestial and demonic monsters and overcome bizarre obstacles and acquire new abilities and items of power. Afterwards they return to Sigil and sell the phat loot. Next week, they do it all over again."

Ok, except for the exotic locations and enemies, pretty much the standard story.

Call of Cthulhu: "A party of investigators is thrown together by the shared experience of a supernatural or inhuman terror. They pursue clues and question witnesses, travelling the world in an attempt to foil a plot by cultists or other servants of the Mythos before it is complete. Next week, if they aren't all dead or insane, they do it all over again."

Hm. Might be fun to do for Al-Qadim, Birthright, and Spelljammer as well.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]mearls
2005-05-29 11:27 pm UTC (link)
I really like the Ravenloft summary!

I've sometimes wondered if a good strategy for Planescape 3.x would be to cast it as the high/epic level setting. You'd basically still be playing D&D, as you point out, but it serves to justify the exotic locales and gives DMs an easier time throwing all sorts of powerful monsters at the party.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bcwalker, 2005-05-29 11:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chryx, 2005-05-30 09:59 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-05-30 11:32 am UTC
Defence of Dragonlance - (Anonymous), 2005-06-06 10:32 am UTC

[info]yeloson
2005-05-29 11:57 pm UTC (link)
Mike, thanks for the article.

A thought and a question- Most games that people are familiar with the "core story" don't fly for me- how would you go about communicating clearly a deviation from a core story?

(Reply to this)

Not just D&D
(Anonymous)
2005-05-30 12:00 am UTC (link)
I agree with Ryan and Mike's assessment of the core story of D&D: journey to exotic places, kill monsters, take their loot, sell it for profit. I disagree, however, that it is limited to D&D. Basically, the d20 system caters to this type of play. Star Wars is the same thing: a journey into space to an exotic location, kill the evil creatures, take their stuff, power up. Note, however, that killing the evil creatures doesn't have to be with light sabers, and it doesn't have to be killing. It can be done with diplomacy, without bloodshed. Taking the evil creatures' stuff doesn't have to mean filling a sack with gold pieces: it can mean winning their loyalty, their signature on the Rim Treaty Accords, or the withdrawal of their forces from the Mustafar Blockade. In short, I don't think the core story Ryan and Mike are talking about is just for D&D. I think it's the basis for d20 and most successful RPGs.

That said, the setting definitely influences the concrete instances of the core story. It can emphasize certain themes (oppressed vs. oppressors, natural vs. artificial). It can emphasize or even demand certain methods (diplomacy vs. force, covert vs. open assault). But it doesn't change the core story of D&D or d20. You're still playing by the same rules. Same cake, different flavor. Maybe a different filling between layers, even. Or with a crunchy warforged on top. Sorry, I'm hungry. :)

Looked at this way, then, we should not define a core story for D&D as a whole and then define a different core story for each setting. Rather we should keep the same core story for any setting, changing only the implementation, themes, plots, and characters. the implementation of that core story for each setting.

Now, about Eberron. First, full disclosure: I co-authored the August release Eberron Explorer's Handbook from WOTC. Eberron's core story is the same as Greyhawk's, the same as the Forgotten Realms', the same as Star Wars'. Go to exotic locations, fight, win loot, return to an adoring civilization. The consumer psychographic that Eberron serves is the same as FR (and it should be, given that setting's huge popularity), with one difference. Namely, an audience that wants huge amounts of flavor, detailed background, and an official, canonical history and NPC caste. The difference is that Eberron caters to the consumer who wants his world to make a little more sense. Nothing against FR - it's a great world with great characters - but it's not as internally consistent as it could be. Eberron is a step in the direction of a world that makes sense according to the rules of D&D. Remember, FR was Ed's homebrew world long before D&D. It was not designed for D&D, it was adapted to D&D. Eberron was built for D&D from the ground up. In fact, the proper way to look at it is not that Eberron was built for D&D, but, in the most sublime passages of the ECS, D&D designed Eberron.

As for Dark Sun, I think its failure was not in the novels. Its failure was that it tried to have a core story that was different from D&D's core story. Star Wards d20 is, from what I've seen, suffering from the same thing. RD said taht the number of SW published scenarios that focus on traveling to an exotic space locale, accomplishing a dangerous mission (killing monsters), and returning are few. If he's right, then it seems to me that SW is mistakenly moving away from the core story of D&D and d20.

Frank Brunner

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Other kinds of core stories
[info]rsdancey
2005-05-30 12:25 am UTC (link)
One of the biggest criticisms leveled against D&D (and many YATF(*) RPGs in general) is that they are too wedded to the "kill the monster / take the loot" core story. In fact, I think this is one of the places that new game designers spawn: "How can I tell a different kind of story with D&D than the same old dungeon crawl that I think is trite and unimaginative?"

What is interesting to me is how often "a different kind of story" becomes "change a few variables then tell the D&D core story again". Only a handful of games have really managed to break away from D&D's core story and make something that can actually be used as intended by other players outside the designer's game group.

The classic example, of course, is White Wolf's Vampire. Vampire is a classic superhero game, where the PCs are vested with abilities way out of proportion with "average people", and who hide their real identities lest they be killed as monsters. In most Vampire chronicles, the objective is not to get a group together, go to the dungeon, kill monsters and grab loot. It is usually to uncover a devious plot to weaken/destroy the social order, then use many kinds of problem solving skills to stop that plot before it unravels "civilization as we know it", or "strips away our humanity and leaves us completely beastial".

Call of Cthulu, the other oft-cited example of a successful non-D&D core story, has been described as the only "adult" RPG (by Ken Hite), because the point in CoC is not personal aggrandizement, but the protection of others - often at the expense of self. It can be run, of course, as the ultimate dungeon crawl (see: "Beyond the Mountains of Madness"), but it contains within it a kernel of a core story that transcends the D&D story in the way that marriage transcends an adolscent crush.

Interestingly both of these game worlds could easily be expressed using the d20 mechanics (and in CoC's case have been). The mechanics of these games are not what make them different from D&D (other than changes on the margins to emphasize or de-emphasize certain aspects of game play). What makes them different is the philosophy of the core story and the shared agreement by the players to express that story.

If designers who don't like D&D's core story started with a "design paradigm" based on a different core story, then went about building a game mechanic that supported that story, I think they'd be much more successful than they have been historically in forcing D&D to mutate into something mechanically different, then trying to figure out what to do with the mutant. Or worse, mutating D&D just "because", and then trying to tell stories with the mutant for which D&D is perfectly suited...

Ryan

(*) "YATF" (pronouced "yah-taff") stands for "Yet Another Tolkien Fantasy". If you're telling a story that involves elves, dwarves, orcs, dragons, and magic, and you come from a literary tradition that includes Lord of the Rings, it is almost certain that you're telling a story set in a YATF. I long for a fantasy gaming world that successfully presents a multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-cultural milieu through some lens other than that of Middle-Earth. The only property in gaming that I think may qualify is MAR Barker's Tekumel.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Other kinds of core stories - (Anonymous), 2005-05-30 12:48 am UTC
Re: Other kinds of core stories - (Anonymous), 2005-05-30 10:29 am UTC
Re: Other kinds of core stories - [info]trekhead, 2005-05-31 08:44 am UTC
Re: Other kinds of core stories - [info]odhanan, 2005-06-01 02:45 pm UTC
Re: Other kinds of core stories - (Anonymous), 2005-06-04 03:48 am UTC
Re: Not just D&D - (Anonymous), 2005-05-30 12:25 am UTC
Re: Not just D&D - [info]braincraft, 2005-05-30 12:39 am UTC
Re: Not just D&D - (Anonymous), 2005-05-30 12:43 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2005-05-30 12:44 am UTC (link)
It's "yoke" of tyranny, as in the thing you make an ox submit to, not Yolk of trrany, which is the yellow of an egg.

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[info]sim_james
2005-05-30 12:59 am UTC (link)
   The yolk of tyranny is beaten into the salty omelet of tears.
   

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(no subject) - [info]braincraft, 2005-05-30 04:02 am UTC

[info]the_never
2005-05-30 12:56 am UTC (link)
I think the good vs. evil part of D&D is hugely important.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]eyebeams
2005-05-30 04:41 am UTC (link)
Having sides is important. D&D Good and evil are forms of radiation first, and bear only a loose relationship to actual moral themes (moral themes require the resolution of a moral conflict; D&D characters are rarely morally conflicted). Normally, folks who are good-radioactive fight folks who are evil-radioactive for no other reason that these make them enemies, really (Fortunately, evil-radiation turns your skin jet black, or turns you into a zombie or orc, so evil guys are easier to find). Jonothan Tweet even accepts this in one of his games, where your radiological state is based on the gods' imposed codes and not your own intent, which neatly solves some of the deprotagonization issues around alignment.

But the point of alignment is usually to paint targets on genre-appropriate chests. D&D's method of doing this is actually a pretty good one, and makes it different from games where uncovering the target is more central to the story.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]dwarf74
2005-05-30 01:29 am UTC (link)
That's one of the more insightful posts I've read in a long time.

Very interesting.

(Reply to this)


[info]lalato
2005-05-30 01:39 am UTC (link)
So then this begs the question... what is the core story of Iron Heroes?

--sam

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[info]entsuropi
2005-05-30 01:52 am UTC (link)
Apparently, the same as D&D with the addition of, 'while striving to look far cooler than any Fighter berk from D&D'.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]brahman_atman, 2005-05-30 06:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lalato, 2005-05-30 06:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]brahman_atman, 2005-05-31 04:13 am UTC

[info]mforbeck
2005-05-30 03:39 am UTC (link)
Nicely done, Mike. Back in the Pinnacle days, we used to wrestle with this question too, although we just called it "the Hook." We always tried to boil a game down to "What are the heroes supposed to do?" That leads to your Core Story.

Of course, heroes can do all sorts of things in a game that the designers never dreamed of, but it helps if you can sum up the purpose of the game in a short sentence or paragraph. It makes it easier for everyone involved with the game, from the designer to the players, to understand what they're all talking about. As Zinser used to point out, it makes it a lot easier to sell the game too.

In college, a professor taught me that a western works like this: The in-group (usually townsfolk) is threatened by an out-group (usually outlaws). A hero with the values of the in-group and the skills of the out-group arrives to save the day. After succeeding, the hero must leave because his skills do not fit with the values of the in-group he's just saved.

It seems that Tolkienesque fantasy is the opposite of this. A person from the in-group (usually a peaceful town) leaves that locale and acquires the skills of the out-group (wizards, warriors, etc.) so that he can save in the in-group. He then returns home to accolades.

The Tolkieneqsue story seems more European in flavor and values, which may explain why so many fantasy worlds are thinly veiled versions of medieval Europe.

I think of Eberron as more of a western than a fantasy, despite all the surrounding tropes. It shows in the first Eberron novel I wrote, Marked for Death, which has a distinct western flavor.

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(Deleted post)
Re: Dear Forbeck - [info]jadasc, 2005-05-30 01:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-05-30 08:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mforbeck, 2005-05-30 03:04 pm UTC
Now *that* was useful - [info]noisy_cricket, 2005-05-30 10:07 am UTC

[info]cessna182
2005-05-30 05:05 am UTC (link)
I can also see how the lack of a consistant "core story" has hurt Tekumel over the years.

Beautiful, rich, detailed setting. Now what?

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[info]shellyinseattle
2005-05-30 07:15 am UTC (link)
Tekumel and other non-Western settings have a different problem -- we're not familiar enough with the stories that exist to activate our imaginations enough, or the stories have been truly lost in time.

For instance, everyone who reads a D&D books and its world of paladins et al is familiar with the concept of knights and several stories surrounding them like King Arthur, etc. But even after studying Native American cultures, I can't name a good Mayan story, nor many Aztec stories. Yes, I know details of calendars, concepts of some of the gods, archaelogical research, etc, but not full fledged epics beyond pieces of the Quetzalcoatl story. Certainly not enough to fully imagine the world of Tekumel and inhabit it with Mayan/Aztec/Indian characters and plots like Barker himself probably does.

This lack of familiarity is what inhibits the formation of a "core story" in our European-centric minds. In other words, if we had this familiarity, a core story would form in our minds to at least a default level just as it does for any other role playing world.

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(no subject) - [info]rentagurkha, 2005-05-30 01:52 pm UTC
Tekumel: myth or fiction? - [info]toddderscheid, 2005-09-30 07:11 am UTC
I'm curious...
[info]steve_nicholson
2005-05-30 07:29 am UTC (link)
Do you still think Eberron doesn't have a core story? You're proposed core story seems to fit well with the setting and you said you used it yourself. That's an argument for Eberron having a core story. I think it does present a core story, and I think you've identified it. If I had to guess, and I do, I'd say you had trouble identifying Eberron's core story because the setting is still very new. It's less than a year old, and only two books have ben published for it. That you had trouble categorizing Eberron in relation to settings that over two decades old doesn't surprise me. Heck, I'd say it's expected.

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Re: I'm curious...
[info]ravenx99
2005-05-30 10:02 pm UTC (link)
I think the core story needs to be obvious. It's part of what sells the product, and helps the GM sell the game to the players.

When someone flips through the product and asks, "This looks neat, but what kind of adventures will I run with it?" he's asking "What is the core story?" And I think the answer to that should be very obvious.

Now a GM can find his own types of stories to tell independent of the "core story"... he isn't required to play the story-type outlined by the game. But for the GM who doesn't look at the setting and say, "Gee, I want to tell an XYZ kind of story in this," finding a story should be as simple as reading the book to discover the default story. I don't think your usual GM thinks in these concrete terms, but it represents what's going through his mind. I His conscious thought may be, "Eh, this setting doesn't interest me," but what he may be reacting to is lack of a "hook"... lack of immediately seeing in his mind's eye the story potentials of the setting.

If it takes a year to figure out what a setting's "core story" is, then you really haven't found the core story... you've found _a_ story that can be told in the setting. The core story of the setting is the story that the author of the setting had in mind when he wrote it. In the case of Eberron, the author failed to clearly convey what story he had in mind. (Or, he assumed the default D&D core story and didn't think it needed stating.)

I've got a small setting book for BESM... a powered-armor, planet with forgotten ancient technology kind of setting (I forget the name). After reading it cover to cover, I thought, "Interesting, but I have no idea what kind of story I'd tell in this." If the author had a core story in mind, he failed to convey it, and I was left without a clear idea of what to do with the product.

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Alternate Core Stories
[info]mythusmage
2005-05-30 09:51 am UTC (link)
I must admit I really hadn't thought about the subject. Then again, I don't think of RPG settings and adventures as being like stories. A setting is a place where adventures take place, while the adventures are the events as they take place. You're not telling a story as you adventure, you are living the adventure. For all that the events are imaginary, they are happening then and there. The story comes when you recount your adventure.

Still, a reason to adventure, to risk your imaginary life is a good thing. Fame, fortune, a new fossil for the museum. You got drafted. A reason why.

Some RPGs provide a reason. Others don't. If you have no experience with adventure stories from the 40s and 50s then it's hard to come up with a core story for Dangerous Journeys. The same holds true of most any superhero RPG, if you have no first hand experience with superhero comics.

So let us say instead that some RPGs give prospective players an obvious reason, others don't. Some come with a pre-installed reason, others don't. With those that don't one must either make the reason apparent, or provide a reason.

Which raises a question, what core stories are there? How many of them allow for continuing play?

Core Story: A new, long extinct life form has become the talk of the town. Major museums are willing to sponsor expeditions to remote lands to find new fossils, new species for display. Finding those specimens is going to take a lot of hard work. Are you up to the task? Add in secret histories, ancient cabals, and "things Man really shouldn't be digging up" and you've got a lot to work with. Keep in mind H.P. Lovecraft's "At the Mountains of Madness" used a version of this core story with a few horrific additions.

Core Story: The world has been (literally) through hell. Nearly conquered by a very nasty tyrant, people are now in the process of recovery. It is hard work and needs people willing to do what is needed.

Core Story: An empire fell centuries ago. New cultures have arisen to take its place. There are stories about that empire, saying that it hangs in in lost, remote corners of the world. Do these lost cities really exist? And what happened to that empire's fabled treasures.

Core Story: They mean only the best for you. The best being your taking up their religion. A religion that takes their natural tendencies to an extreme. A religion that doesn't really suit you. Can they be made to see reason? Are you ready to take the necessary steps if they can't?

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Re: Alternate Core Stories
[info]jadasc
2005-05-30 02:01 pm UTC (link)
I think you're off by a little. The "core story" isn't the overarching plot, or the reason to keep adventuring; it's the nuts and bolts of "what do the player characters do in the typical game?" Your examples are too specific to be core.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Alternate Core Stories - [info]mythusmage, 2005-05-31 07:57 am UTC
Re: Alternate Core Stories - [info]sim_james, 2005-05-30 02:25 pm UTC
Re: Alternate Core Stories/Adventures - [info]sim_james, 2005-05-30 02:36 pm UTC
Re: Alternate Core Stories/Adventures - [info]thesleech, 2005-05-31 07:45 am UTC
Re: Alternate Core Stories - [info]danharms, 2005-05-30 11:29 pm UTC

[info]mforbeck
2005-05-30 03:02 pm UTC (link)
Jason sums it up pretty well there, although there are some other wrinkles. I'd put it this way:

"A posse of heroes gathers together to investigate weird events in the Old West. They find the monsters responsible and destroy them, making the American frontier a safer place. Next week, they do it again."

There's a lot more to it than that, of course, but that's the napkin-scribbled version.

As for tripe, the price is going up. Only the best-quality tripe here. :)

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Color me unconvinced
[info]kunimatyu
2005-05-30 04:20 pm UTC (link)
Good article, but I disagree, at least about a setting needing a story. The Eberron-not-having-a-story bit was spot on.

I don't have Mearls' credentials, but I have run a year-long campaign in Eberron, and the lack of a core story is what drew me in. And I think that's intentional -- Keith has left entire areas painted in only the broadest brushstrokes, with certain areas (the warforged soul, the Mournland, Xen'drick, and quite possibily a bunch of other stuff too) left deliberately open to the DM's interpretation. We may -never- have a canon reason for the Mournland's creation, or precisely where warforged come from. On top of that, the metaplot contains villains of varying degrees of complexity, starting with the Emerald Claw and concluding with the quori. If you want to run an intrigue-filled game, go for it. If you want to find treasures in Xen'drick and sell them for a profit, you can do that too. Or you can do something else entirely, like fend off a daelkyr resurgence or tangle with a rakshasa's plans to topple nations. All without the standard fight-collect-sell routine.

Normally, as a DM, I prefer homebrew worlds and I have an extreme dislike of FR, with its 20th-level NPCs, and very detailed regions, not to mention the legion of FR novels. Eberron, at least for now, is the opposite: a compelling, internally consistent world that is almost completely open to interpretation. You can insert the D&D core story, or you can make up your own, like I did. And maybe that's the way WotC wants it: you want a super-detailed more traditional fantasy world that's existed for over thirty years? Check out Forgotten Realms. You want a more modern take on fantasy that leaves more up to the DM? Check out Eberron.

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Good point, nothing new.
[info]odhanan
2005-05-30 05:34 pm UTC (link)
I think it is a good overview.

I do not see what's new, in fact. Any concept has to be able to be described in just a few sentences (or just one sentence). If you can do that, then your concept has an identity and can potentially succeed (if the equation need/offer is there). If you can't, that means your concept is too complicated.

You can do this for games, for novels, for tools, toys, drinks... for virtually any product. If you create a something like a new type of beer, an example of concept would be "A light beer with a Vodka flavour" (mm... wait. I almost puked writing this). The "core story" of a game is its gameplay concept, in fact.

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Greyhawk and FR
[info]odhanan
2005-05-30 07:08 pm UTC (link)
As the default setting, Greyhawk's core story is the one of D&D.

The FR's core story would be: A band of adventurers discovers that the world is ancient, full of lost kingdoms and empires of all sorts, and populated by various powerful individuals, deities and factions they either decide to befriend or fight. Of course, to discover the world, its history and factions, they need to go to various locals, kill monsters, loot them and sell their stuff every time they're back to town.

One should not mix up "core story" (concept) and "background" (everything giving its dimension to the concept besides rules), IMO. Perhaps FR has too much background, but its core story is simple enough.

Comments, anyone?

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[info]trekhead
2005-05-30 10:27 pm UTC (link)
The yolk of tyranny? That's an amusing image. :-)

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Minor Revision
[info]danharms
2005-05-30 11:17 pm UTC (link)
I suggest that "fame and" be removed from the core story. Really, fame is not much of a motivation in D&D, as it provides no direct, tangible benefits to a character. It's either setting-specific (such as honor or reputation), or something that must be chosen (e.g., the Leadership feat).

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Re: Minor Revision
[info]wizofice
2005-06-02 05:58 pm UTC (link)
That's a good point. I think it may have a role in many Iron Heroes' campaigns, though it may not have a direct impact on mechanics there either. It just seems to follow that if you aren't concerned with gathering magic items and that power is instead placed in the individual, then surely the feats performed by the individuals using their own power is more important.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Let's Try This Again
[info]mythusmage
2005-05-31 08:14 am UTC (link)
Dragon Earth: You hunt down and destroy the remnants of the Lich King's forces. You are rewarded by one government or another for your work, sell what you can of what you find, destroy what you can't sell, and pay taxes on all monies earned. As you become better at what you do you are called upon to do more and more dangerous tasks.

Tales of the Wolf Folk Sea: There are secrets to be learned. Your goal is to learn things others don't and to use those secrets to your profit. As you get better at what you do you can learn deeper and darker secrets to use for your benefit. (Example secret: The jermlaine of Yr are not what they seem.)

Those sound more like core stories to you?

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Re: Let's Try This Again
[info]mhacdebhandia
2005-06-02 04:55 am UTC (link)
GURPS Fantasy II: Mad Lands

Fishermen, hunters, and women of the village eke out an existence and hope with all their hearts that they never encounter sorcerers, monsters, or gods.

Hehe.

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[info]jhubert
2005-05-31 08:55 am UTC (link)
Thanks a lot for this article. At the moment I'm designing my own campaign setting ([info]worldofcities), which I plan to publish eventually on RPGNow, and I hadn't thought about this issue yet. But if I want this to be a success, it will probably a good idea to come up with a "Core Story" for it...

(Reply to this)

Thanks!
[info]cazmonster
2005-05-31 03:56 pm UTC (link)
I want to take a second to thank everybody on this thread - it's been nothing but good to read.

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for Spelljammer
(Anonymous)
2005-05-31 07:08 pm UTC (link)
Spelljammer: By the Modules, it's more Star Trek with a fantasy twist.

Your mission this week and next week: Explore strange new worlds that you didn't see the previous week. Seek out new life to kill, new civilizations to plunder or trade with, and do it boldly on a scale of magnitude 1 x 10^6 larger then any other campaign setting. Make sure you boo the illithids and hiss at the neogi along the way as you boldly go where no one wanted you to go before, and the DM scrambles to come up with whole solar systems for you to ignore on your way to your next plunder site (along with the downtime of travel).

And make sure you call 'hyperdrive' or 'warp drive' "spelljamming" like a good fellow, and 'warp space' the phologiston, too!

:) I loved Spelljammer. Under the Dark Fist, scale-wise, is probably the most epic adventure TSR put out.

===Aelryinth

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Al Qadim, Birthright
(Anonymous)
2005-05-31 07:18 pm UTC (link)
Al-Qadim: A party of adventurers assemble to seek fame and fortune, as Fate is willing. They leave civilization for a location of extreme danger, o merciful Fate. They fight monsters and overcome obstacles and acquire new abilities and items of power, all praise to Fate! Afterwards they return to civilization and sell the phat loot, Fate being most kind. Next week, they do it all over again, as we have no Fate but the Fate we are given.

Birthright: A party of noble new rulers and their trusted henchies grow up to seek fame and fortune and outright power and glory, too! They leave their castles one month out of three for a location of extreme danger (and to blow off steam). They fight monsters and overcome obstacles (especially each other and the other noble rulers) and acquire new Blood abilities and items of power. Afterwards, they return to civilization (their castles) and get back to the real business of Domain turns and running an occasional army out there in mass combat. Next game turn, they do it all over again, happily alternating between building resources, fighting armies, and dungeon delves just for a change of pace.

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