Mearls ([info]mearls) wrote,
@ 2006-05-01 15:16:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend  Next Entry
The Role of Game Stores
Ryan had an interesting post in my last entry, and it brought to light a thought I've had in my head for a while.

Before the Internet, a trip to a game store was fun. I liked shifting through racks of Ral Partha and Reaper miniatures looking for cool figures. In high school, I was lucky to have a well-stocked hobby store that dabbled in a few obscure miniatures lines, so there was always something new to find. The same applied to a lesser extent to RPGs and boardgames.

With the dawn of the Internet, that enjoyable part of shopping is gone. There's little there to discover, because I know what's out there. My information is a little too good.

Since about 1999, I've visited the local game store more for the social experience. In NH, the store I shopped at was a bit run down, but the owner knew the gaming business and it was fun talking shop with him. In Boston, Pandemonium was not only a great store, it was a great place to talk games with Jason and whatever random customers were around.

Nowadays, I talk shop with people at work. The nearest store (Genesis Games & Gizmos) is 45 minutes away. While it's a great store, it's just far enough that I can't get out there without making a big trip out of it.

The funny thing is that just this morning, a co-worked mentioned taking part in the store's RPGA game days. I might jump at that, primarily because I miss being involved in the RPGA. It's a great way to meet a broad spectrum of D&D players.



(24 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]heron61
2006-05-01 10:36 pm UTC (link)
Before the Internet, a trip to a game store was fun. I liked shifting through racks of Ral Partha and Reaper miniatures looking for cool figures. In high school, I was lucky to have a well-stocked hobby store that dabbled in a few obscure miniatures lines, so there was always something new to find. The same applied to a lesser extent to RPGs and boardgames.

I'd not considered this before, but you are quite correct. The same is true for me with both RPGs and science fiction & fantasy novels. One of the primary reasons I am increasingly not going to gaming stores or book stores is that it is easier to both find out about and purchase both RPGs and books on-line than in a store.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]jdigital
2006-05-02 04:52 am UTC (link)
In my experience, the Internet is the best place to buy when you know what you want and are sure that you want it, while a shop is a good place to buy when you want to browse or want to look at a book before you buy it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]kadath
2006-05-01 10:59 pm UTC (link)
The only reason I go to the local game store is because they have a good used section with a selection that changes pretty regularly. (Though they seem to be having trouble moving some copies of Torg. Want me to grab you one?)

(Reply to this)


[info]bcwalker
2006-05-01 11:22 pm UTC (link)
Even for me, where I have that Mecca of gaming--The Source Comics & Games--near at hand, the Internet changed my habits. While I still go there roughly once a week, and I still prefer to purchase there than online most of the time, I go there already knowing far more than most other patrons- and often more than the local RPG guy (but not by much; he makes the effort to stay in the know). Instead, I go there to take the long looks at product that online retailers can't do--no, not even the previews at Amazon--and decide after that what to buy (or not) and when.

Fortunately, the owner and crew at The Source know what's going on and are adapting to meet new circumstances by making The Source an increasingly prominent social center through demos, tournaments, big guest events (relatively speaking), and getting involve in the local convention scene. They're trying to make their store as much about the social aspect of the hobby as the business aspect, and it seems to be working; there's lots going on, and sales seem to be up as a direct result.

(Reply to this)


[info]cartoonlad
2006-05-01 11:31 pm UTC (link)
I live in a good sized city but never visit the game stores here, mainly because of convenience -- all of the game stores in town are located in the southeast side of town while I'm up in the northwestern side. I was glad when a game store opened up within a few blocks of where I live. I would be shopping there if they had better customer service. It's a very small shop (mainly card games than RPGs), which shouldn't matter if I want something -- I can special order there, but their customer service isn't that good. Back when I really wanted to support the shop, I had them special order White Dwarf magazine* each month for me, but they started missing issues. When I special ordered another game book, they didn't have it in for almost a week after it was supposed to be in (it turned out to be the game store's fault why it wasn't in). It only takes a few bad customer relations issues to ensure a customer never returns. Most of the time, it's just one.

With the internet I don't have to worry about customer service with special orders -- every order is special. I can see if it's in stock and the cost of shipping is about the same as tax. Oh, and because everything is usually a special order with my local store, if I order online, I can usually get it faster.

* I read it for the miniature painting porn.

(Reply to this)


[info]eryx_uk
2006-05-01 11:47 pm UTC (link)
I feel the same way. Begore the net I would get a bus over to the next town every saturday just to browse the books in the games shop. It was always fresh and interesting. These days I find that because the net spoils it so much - I can find reviews and previews amundo - that just browsing the books isn't as fun as it once was.

(Reply to this)


[info]nikotesla
2006-05-02 12:25 am UTC (link)
There's another option. Groups like NerdNYC give you all the good social stuff without the need to turn a profit. I foresee it as a good model for the community part without the demagoguery of the store owner, which I've always felt was pretty shady.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]lalato
2006-05-02 01:14 am UTC (link)
That's awesome... :)

--sam

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]nikotesla
2006-05-02 01:26 am UTC (link)
Yeah, they're excellent people, too. Luke Crane of Burning Wheel fame is an avid member.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Yay for the Internet!
[info]irishninja
2006-05-02 01:18 am UTC (link)
I too miss the nostalgia of going to the game store to find out what's new, but unlike a lot of people I hear waxing poetic, I don't miss the game stores themselves. I've always been a bit of a snob, and I very frequently find the common clientele (not to mention those behind the counters) of game stores lacking in... shall we say... social graces. It's one thing to be in a store and have other customers annoy you. It's another entirely when the shop's owner and workers are annoying.

Yay for the Internet!

(Reply to this)


[info]gwyndolin
2006-05-02 02:12 am UTC (link)
In the last ten years or so, we've been through several gaming stores in town, and the most recent two have been run by people I don't care to support. The last one was a pompous ass who enjoyed lording his (supposed) power as store owner over the kids who came into his store. The most recent one was rude to an artist friend of mine -- a fantasy/horror artist -- who asked if he could hang art in the gaming store for advertising. I would have understood a simple "no, I don't care for your art," but instead, he gave my friend a lecture about how he was trying to run a business and that just wouldn't be professional. WTH? It's a gaming store -- you'd think fantasy art would be just the sort of decoration they would want. At any rate, his attitude turned me off wanting to give him any support.

Back when we had a really good store in town, I did used to spend a lot of time there, but I can't tell if my habits have changed primarily because I don't like the options now, or if it has more to do with getting older and less eager for the bustle and noise.

I do wax nostalgic about days of Battletech tournaments on Saturdays and LARP on Sundays.

(Reply to this)


[info]cpxbrex
2006-05-02 03:48 am UTC (link)
I think it is also useful to look at the other side of the picture. While it is true that some socializing has certainly been diminished in game stores because of the Internet, I think it is equally the case that the Internet has created a new way for gamers to socialize. Some of the best gamers I've met have been through the Internet, people who were real valuable contributors to my gaming.

(Reply to this)


[info]jdigital
2006-05-02 04:39 am UTC (link)
I keep saying, Wizards isn't doing enough to draw in communities of players via game shops - unless they are, in the States, and it's only the UK that's being ignored.

Say I'm a potential D&D player. I'm at my local shop browsing comic books and I see this "Dungeons & Dragons" on sale. "I've heard of that", I say, "It might be interesting." I don't buy it, because it's thirty dollars for the Player's Handbook alone and I don't know anyone who plays.

Now lets say that when I see the book, I see a poster telling me I can get into a regular game (perhaps held in the shop to drum up interest among the other customers), and all I have to buy is a two dollar set of dice. I might play. I might buy the Player's Handbook. Two years later, maybe I've bought every splatbook and run my own game, with players buying their own Player's Handbooks like I did.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]bcwalker
2006-05-02 06:36 am UTC (link)
That's considered to be the shop owner's responsibility, not WOTC's, which is one of the big reasons for the retail-level problems here in the US.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]d20hound
2006-05-02 02:29 pm UTC (link)
I hadn't thought of that. I remember when my lifeline to CyberPunk and Vampire was Fandom II (our FLGS). I would go to there at least once a month just to see what was new. We are fortunate in having a game store that stocks just about every game - I bought endless games there over the year - Wasteworld, CyberPunk, metric tonnes of D&D, shelves full of Vampire and other WoD,Phoenix Command, Delta Force, Top Secret, edition after edition of Gamma World, and so on.

Now I know what to expect when I go in. I know what's out, what's coming, and what's out of print. I too miss the sense of discovery.

(Reply to this)


[info]osito71
2006-05-02 02:29 pm UTC (link)
I am so glad I don't have to go to my closest gaming store anymore.

No more clerks that think their shit don't stink b/c they work in a damn game store and who either don't know shit about most games, or pretend they don't, and no more fatbeards following me around the store telling me about their human-sized halfling in boots of striding and springing and his demon concubine in a very loud voice.

(Reply to this)


[info]handsome_hue
2006-05-02 02:53 pm UTC (link)
I grew up resenting the apparently condescending attitudes of many of the owners and employees of game retailers in my area. Then I worked for a couple years as the unofficial "manager" of the games section of a comic shop. While I tried to be the opposite of everything I hated about retailers I had dealt with, I found out I wasn't very good at handling a very unpleasant but extremely important part of my job -- loss prevention. It could be that I just personally lacked the savvy to be friendly, respectful and alertly suspicious all at the same time, but I came away from the experience with a healthier respect for what game store people have to deal with.

Anyway, I'm bringing this up because it just occurred to me that internet vendors don't have to worry about this stuff at all, and that is probably one more reason they can so often undercut brick and mortars on the price of their products. All things considered, I can't help but feel like the game store is simply no longer a viable institution. I do find myself "supporting" stores in my area, but for what? I find that my reasons are mainly sentimental and I don't expect new generations of gamers to pay a $20 nostalgia premium on a new board game, as I seem to be willing to do.

(Reply to this)


[info]spkelley
2006-05-02 03:18 pm UTC (link)
Many comments here that are not in favor of their friendly local game store (FLGS) solely based on how the FLGS is run, ie the employees. I agree, many owners run them like crap and have goof balls working there that make people not want to visit. IMO, many do it the wrong way, and that is a damn shame. I run a local site catering to gamers. I could really use local stores for support, but its been hit or miss. I preach from ahigh to support your FLGS, but it is getting increasingly harder to do mainly from a cost stand point. "It's better to buy that $40 book from FLGS rather than Malwart.com at 40% off because..."

Support from the game publishers are hit or miss at best, but the store can make up for it. Most stores in my area are simply marketing retarded. The trouble is that many FLGS's are in business because a gamer thought it would be cool to own his own store and get dibbs on all the new stuff, not because it's an actual business and should be run as such.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]rsdancey
2006-05-02 04:27 pm UTC (link)
The economic data seems to suggest that the plight of game stores is feeding back on the quality of the staff they can afford to hire. As their margins worsen and profit drops it becomes increasingly hard to hire, train, and retain very good people given the wages that can be offered.

Part of the very real problem with game stores is that they aren't successful enough to justify paying even wages that Starbucks can pay its baristas. So they can't improve their image, and make more money, because they're trapped at the bottom of a wage/quality well. The solution to the trap is for ownership to just overpay to attract great people, running the store at a substantial loss in an attempt to reach a viable economy of scale. Unfortunately, few game store owners are able to extend that kind of capital.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]spkelley
2006-05-02 05:46 pm UTC (link)
What is the old addage? "You get what you pay for?" This does indeed include employees. You're right. That is one big reason I don't go and open a store myself. It doesn't sound like a real promising source of good income. Not that I would expect to become a millionaire, but there are certain needs and wants.

In order to bring in the revenue you have to have space, IMO. Space to have events. Space to have rooms for RPG's, etc. And unfortunately, besides employees, that can amount to a huge piece of overhead.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]osito71
2006-05-02 07:47 pm UTC (link)
So this has been the problem all along? Makes sense, I guess.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]yeloson
2006-05-02 06:41 pm UTC (link)
For me, it's basically that the FLGS simply doesn't provide what I want/need when it comes to rpgs. Pretty much my shopping there now solely consists of raiding the used game section for out-of-print games, and little of new product.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]nikotesla
2006-05-02 08:04 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I'm with you, man. Our local dude has no idea what's happening with RPGs outside of WW and D20. He just laments their decreasing quality.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Thanks.
[info]youmairu
2007-02-15 05:17 pm UTC (link)
My good friend, my husband, and myself decided to take the plunge and open a game shop this last winter.

When you run this kind of business, everyone has advice. Stock this, stock that, charge for this, don't charge for that, etc. But whilst crawling the internet for player-level feedback I have stumbled across this journal post on a couple of occasions and found it to be helpful.

Anyway, just thought you all should know that here in Springfield (the one in Ilinois) we are taking some of your thoughts into consideration and running a store from a players perspective.

-Trish
-Level Up

(Reply to this)


(24 comments) - (Post a new comment)

Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…